K-Curve Case Study with Branko Culo
In this episode of the Family Money Podcast, Rick Thomas chats with Branko Culo, of Express Professional Employers and Specialized Recruiting Group franchises in Edmonton, Alberta. You'll hear how Branko's business adapted to the pandemic and how they're planning for the future.
Episode Highlights:
01:40 - About the Express franchise in Edmonton
04:16 - The state of the economy in March 2020
06:20 - The thoughts running through Branko and Jessica’s heads during the beginning of the pandemic
08:17 - The decision behind hiring people during the pandemic
09:51 - Why you need to sell your way through a downturn
11:14 - What Branko would have done differently
12:30 - What they did to adapt to the current environment
16:15 - Supply chain in the Canadian economy
17:33 - What’s the new normal for their business?
21:00 - How COVID accelerated business strategy
27:33 - Key lessons learned in adapting to the new reality
28:55 - What business leaders need to be thinking about for the future
36:11 - What Branko is most excited about in the next 10 years of running the business
Resources/Links Mentioned in this episode:
About the Guest Branko Culo
Driven by his passion for sports, family loyalty and entrepreneurial spirit, Branko is a leader with an unorthodox approach. His quiet demeanour belies his take-charge attitude with a focus on results, propels Branko to take on new challenges.
Learning from his parents, Branko was taught valuable lessons about work ethic, loyalty and teamwork. Particularly from his father who escaped communist Yugoslavia by foot and came to Canada.
Branko's first job was delivering flyers in the Edmonton Crestwood neighbourhood for five dollars. Prior to joining Express, he worked his way into a leadership role within the oil & gas industry- where he worked for nearly 15 years. Branko now leads Express' Senior Level Search Division, one that has grown exponentially in recent years.
Always a team player, Branko uses skills gained while playing high-level organized soccer and hockey to coach and mentor the other search and contract employees who make-up the accounting, finance and administration teams.
To relax, you will find Branko spending time with family, playing golf in the summer, men's hockey league in the winter and year-round his latest passion- cycling.
Branko's inspiration to always improve comes from his father, who early on in life instilled this quality in him and would say: "A wise man learns from other's mistakes. A fool learns from his own".
Transcript
DISCLAIMER: This transcript is automatically generated by Descript. Please excuse any errors.
[00:00:00] Rick Thomas: Greetings all. For our seventh episode of the Family Money Podcast and the final K curve case study, I'm pleased to be sharing an interview with a neighbor to the north, with Branko Culo, co-owner along with his wife, Jessica, of the Express Professional Employers and Specialized Recruiting Group franchises in Edmonton, Alberta.
[00:00:20] I had the opportunity to meet Branko a couple of years ago while doing some corporate innovations work together. And I was immediately drawn to his expansive thinking about innovation and his willingness to think outside of the proverbial box and examining how businesses need to transform amidst a rapidly evolving economy.
[00:00:38] Branko has a fascinating story to tell, how they navigated the challenges that the pandemic [00:00:45] brought to the Edmonton economy and to their business in particular. As has been a common thread through all of the K curve case studies, those that aggressively sought to be nimble and light on their feet and how they responded to the pandemic were eventually rewarded in some unforeseen way.
[00:01:02] In Branko's story, you'll find similar themes, but all unique to their business and underscores in this case, why the franchise business model is such a powerful ownership structure for tapping into that entrepreneurial spirit and then never say die attitude that comes with those that have skin in the game.
[00:01:20] I'm certain you'll be motivated by his story as I was. So on with the show.
[00:01:25] All right, Branko. Good to have you this morning, tell us a little bit about your business up [00:01:30] there in Edmonton and by the way, you're the first Canadian I've I've had on the podcast
[00:01:34] Branko Culo: And it seems like I should send you some Canadian beer.
[00:01:38] Rick Thomas: Yeah. I'll take all the beer you can send me.
[00:01:40] Yeah, yeah. You bet. So, yeah. So tell us you're up in Edmonton. And yeah. Tell us a little bit about the the business that you and Jessica have and, and how long you been doing it..
[00:01:53] Branko Culo: Sure. Well, Edmonton is the furthest north Capitol city in Canada. So we sit at a population of just over a million people. So my wife, Jessica actually started and bought the franchise with her parents in 2005.
[00:02:06] I joined the ownership group in 2008 when we purchased our second office or second territory. And then was working in an oil and [00:02:15] gas career. And effectively came over and started running my own desk in 2015 with our professional contract and search division, which I now lead. And so, you know, that was an interesting time too, Rick. That was the worst year in the business is when I came into it.
[00:02:33] Rick Thomas: Hey, you want to start out at the bottom, so much easier than starting out at the top.
[00:02:39] Branko Culo: I thought we were planning an easy transition and a yeah, no, we, we planned a really challenging one and on a personal note at the same time we were building a house.
[00:02:48] And so I actually ended up living with my in-laws during this transition while all this was going on for, it was only supposed to be a year, but ended up being two years. So, so effectively between our two offices we [00:03:00] serve in between 450 and 500 clients a year. We place on average just over 4,000 people a year and temporary contract and professional search position.
[00:03:10] We work with institutional psychology and universities. We work with publicly traded companies. We work with small mom and pop shops. So we work with privately held companies and national international groups as well. So we our service lines, our commercial line of service office administrative, accounting, and finance.
[00:03:28] And then we do a sales management engineering. Dabble a little bit in IT, but it's not a huge focus for us right now. You know, demands in the workforce change, it will be less that's on the horizon for
[00:03:38] us
[00:03:39] Rick Thomas: Okay. Well, we'll, we'll probably come around and, and touch on that some more. And, and so is it just you and [00:03:45] Jessica in the business now, have you transitioned fully with her parents?
[00:03:48] Are they still involved?
[00:03:49] Branko Culo: Yeah, we did a, we did a succession plan and completed the succession plan and purchase in 2016. So shortly after I joined, we finalized.
[00:03:57] Rick Thomas: Yeah. Excellent. Well, that's maybe another topic I'd love to interview you more about. Is how you guys approach that whole thing. So for another day, but again, the focus of this discussion is really how have different businesses kind of evolved and adapted through the shutdowns with the pandemic.
[00:04:16] So take us back to first quarter of 2020. And before things really began to get real, you know, and in March and on. And where was your business at? How was the [00:04:30] overall economy up there in Edmonton.
[00:04:32] Branko Culo: The economy was good. It was turning off of the heels of the recession. So we know we saw deep recession hill here in Alberta.
[00:04:39] That was prolonged obviously, because kind of the energy and oil and gas conversations that were taking place internationally. So we weren't all focused on oil and gas, but of course every business is affected to somewhat shape or form as a result of our energy sector. So it started to turn around in 2018, and then coming into 2019, we were coming off of a, of a growth year. And so we're anticipating growth in 2020 of 15%. And we were tracking prior to March for 15% growth which would have had led us to our two best years for both offices. So we were in a really strong position and [00:05:15] feeling good about where the economy and where our team and where our business was going.
[00:05:18] And then COVID came around, and well, you know, there was a lot of uncertainty around the severity of it, right? Because it took a while for that conversation to really get escalated to where it was a serious ongoing concern here. We weren't sure how long it was going to last. Was it, was it going to be a short blip on the radar, like SARS was or back in nineties or, you know, was it going to be something that we were going to live with for a long time?
[00:05:42] You know, restrictions were imposed on businesses. We were an essential business, so we were allowed to continue business operations. But where that started to hit us almost immediately after COVID was, you know, announced and it was here and it was a growing concern and was announced by the government and health officials.
[00:05:59] We saw an [00:06:00] immediate decrease of 60% in sales year, over year.
[00:06:03] Rick Thomas: Wow. And was that in, in that early March time frame?
[00:06:08] Branko Culo: Yeah, that was just at the end of March and we were down 60%.
[00:06:13] Rick Thomas: Alrighty. So as you were and Jessica sitting around a dinner table thinking, okay, now what? What were some of the things going through your heads at that time?
[00:06:23] Branko Culo: Well, what we kind of announced to the team to start it off with is we had a meeting with them because there was, you know how team members and colleagues can start talking. You know, we, we, we realized it was important to have a message to the team and to have that message in that conversation with the team where we were and what was happening while we were seeing on the business and then the financing.
[00:06:43] Also, [00:06:45] you know, educating ourselves from health officials, government officials and, and industry analysts on, you know, what COVID could mean for us. And, and so, you know, we really sat down and brought all that information to the table announced that to the team. And then, you know, also let them know that in times like this we want this to bring out the best in our team, not the worst in our team.
[00:07:04] So you kind of communicated at that front and we also kind of discussed what being the best and showing the best of ourselves means.
[00:07:11] Rick Thomas: And did the team participate in that conversation or was it more led by doing Jessica?
[00:07:16] Branko Culo: It was more led by myself and Jessica, but the leaders on our team, did speak up and speak to that as well.
[00:07:23] And there were some concerns voiced. And you know, to be honest with you, Rick, there was a couple of people on our team where they [00:07:30] did struggle early on. And so there was, you know, some conversations on the side that needed to take place and, and some coaching and some. You know, allowing them to have like a mental health break opportunity to refocus.
[00:07:45] Rick Thomas: Yeah. And by the way, how many team members are in your company?
[00:07:50] Branko Culo: We are at 20 now. So one of the things that we've done is we've hired through COVID. So we're a lot of people were laying off, especially on their sales front, cause they're salespeople. Weren't delivering numbers. So why keep them around?
[00:08:03] Right. That seems to be a backwards mentality, but when sales should be the biggest focus in these times, you sell yourself through a recession or a, you know, a downturn, we hired so we hired five more [00:08:15] people. So we are now at 20.
[00:08:17] Rick Thomas: And at what point did you make the decision to hire and talk a little bit about what that decision was like? Cause I'm, I'm presuming and correct me that that decision was made before the sales began to return.
[00:08:31] Branko Culo: Absolutely. It's been something that we've been talking about for awhile. We've realized you know, weakness, I guess, as a company is we tend to find really good people and, you know, it's kind of only, only having like one horse in the race.
[00:08:44] And then not horse gets tired or something happens to that horse. And all of a sudden you don't have a horse in the race is anymore. And that's how we realized a lot of our business operations nationally and internationally looked like. So we identified that our competitors, what the [00:09:00] advantage of them is that they have more horses in the stable.
[00:09:02] So we realized that we needed to divest and invest in our leaders and promote them and give them the opportunities to hire people, promote them into leadership roles and then support them and promote them to hire people for their teams. So that was a conversation that was kind of taking place prior to COVID, but really escalated during COVID.
[00:09:19] And, and, you know, to be honest with you, a little bit of why we moved so quickly with that decision and why we felt comfortable with running a high overhead, given sales had decreased so quickly, was we, we, we did qualify and receive government subsidies.
[00:09:32] Rick Thomas: Okay. And that helped make that decision easier.
[00:09:35] Branko Culo: Certainly. Yeah.
[00:09:37] Rick Thomas: And how soon after that March timeframe, when you took the big hit, like most people, how soon after did [00:09:45] you make the decision that, Hey, let's, let's keep the foot on the pedal here and hire?
[00:09:51] Branko Culo: I would say it was almost within a month to two. . Because we, we realized and we've know from past experience in downturns that you need to sell your way through.
[00:10:00] And so we saw that our competition was taking their foot off the gas pedals that we know our competition very well. So know they were staying at home and hanging out and going golfing you know, instead of being in the office and making those calls or investing in those relationships to maintain them with their clients or their prospects throughout this process.
[00:10:20] And we also know they laid off quickly and they laid off in big numbers. So we saw that as a huge opportunity gap for us to steal market share.
[00:10:28] Rick Thomas: Yeah. So, so [00:10:30] now talk us through you began to hire staff and, what was it like for the business to respond? How long did that take and what sectors really began to warm to kind of this newer reality?
[00:10:45] Branko Culo: Well, I, they took a while for things to respond and you know, we're, we're still things we're responding right now a year and a bit later, we're starting to see a big response in a big. Some of it, that's kind of your, your seasonal culprits construction industry is really picking up for us locally right now.
[00:11:02] Oil and gas is coming back a little bit too. But then you have their infrastructure projects, which governments have put money into in order for job creation. We've tapped into all of that currently.
[00:11:14] Rick Thomas: [00:11:15] Yeah. So it, as you look back on the decisions that you made certainly hiring. It sounds like that was absolutely the right thing to do. Is there anything that you look back on? It's like, okay, I would have done that different or maybe not at all.
[00:11:34] Branko Culo: We have asked ourselves that question and I don't mean to sound boastful, but you know, we never rushed into anything and no point did we make a rash decision.
[00:11:44] Right. Like what we saw, some of our clients do was the minute things were announced, they just cut. Or they just stopped operations. They stopped investment into their businesses. If they hadn't major projects, you know, on the client side, clients canceled projects or delayed projects. And, and we kind [00:12:00] of thought like, Hey, what is a real reason for stopping or slowing anything down right now?
[00:12:04] If it's just the fact that we're going through an epidemic and it's, and we haven't experienced this as a business. Is that enough reason? You know, we, I guess we didn't feel confident that this was going to be a long-term problem we were going to be faced with. And maybe that was a little bit of naivety on our part, but we just always looked at it as it was going to be temporary.
[00:12:24] So let's make the right business decision so that when we come out of this we're properly prepared,
[00:12:29] Rick Thomas: And as you look at some of the like many businesses did going virtual is probably the most obvious, but are there other things that you and Jessica did to adapt to this current environment? You know, [00:12:45] and what were they?
[00:12:46] Branko Culo: Yeah. So we, we implemented a remote work policy. So this was something that both her and I were adamantly against before when people have requested it or brought it up with us, we were like, oh, they must be lazy. Or, you know, they're looking to leave or they're disengaged. And, you know, we gave those opportunities to our performers to see how they would cope with it.
[00:13:06] And also the ones that needed to stay at home because of family right. For care-taking purposes. But what it showed us was that it does work and the technology allows us to stay in touch to keep in communication. But behind that, we did have, you know, goals and objectives that were, they were responsible for hitting.
[00:13:26] And, so we implemented that. Typically we, prior to [00:13:30] this, and it's almost kind of shocking to think about now. So our two offices, we never did combined meetings. The teams were always separated. And, and so we, we realized it was important for everyone to kind of see each other and see how each other are doing and joke and laugh together.
[00:13:48] And, but also get a pulse on what's happening as a group, not just as an office. And and that created a real, a lot of bonding amongst the team. So that was something that we never even thought about doing before, but now it's, we'll never go back. Right.
[00:14:02] Rick Thomas: And it's all done virtually still, right?
[00:14:04] Branko Culo: It's all done. Yeah. Virtually still am and PM meetings. Now we've realized that they were getting redundant, right? Yeah. I think a lot of companies are starting to realize this too, is the switch to virtual is [00:14:15] successful for a certain time, but then there's a redundancy, right? How do you keep people engaged in the process?
[00:14:20] So, you know, we've, we've continued on with training virtuals, right? To switch it up. So weekly training on a certain day, which is a Wednesday mornings for us, then we have you know, we're kind of goals and KPI update meetings. We did those as a big group, but we realized people are getting too disengaged, right?
[00:14:37] If it wasn't in their department or in their niche, they were checking their phone or they were checking their email or looking down or eating. And so, you know, we, we split those up into niche groups now, and they've been extremely effective since we done that high level of engaging.
[00:14:52] And then, so we've, we've kind of split the virtual meetings from a large group into more subgroups with only having a one large meeting, you know, two [00:15:00] times a week now, instead of, you know, 10 times a week in the morning and in the afternoon you know, we started to have fun once we got comfortable with COVID being around.
[00:15:08] We started to focus on kind of our marketing and showing how strong our team is and how together we are. so we put a couple of a Tik TOK videos out there. And you know, one, one was just kind of, showcasing who we are or what we look after and, and, you know, putting a little of our own pizazz to it and then kind of like a, you know, a music video.
[00:15:28] And then the other one we showcase what we'd like to do in our spare time. Like, you know, what we do in the office, what we do out of the office. So that was a fun way for the team, just to kind of either, you know, reinforce how strong of a team we have, but then show clients are like, Hey, you know, things are serious, but we're still trying to have fun during [00:15:45] this.
[00:15:45] Rick Thomas: That's great. I caught one of those. I think you'd posted it through LinkedIn. I'll be sure to include the links on the podcast script, because I thought it was very, very clever and creative and a lot of things. Yeah.
[00:15:56] Branko Culo: And that wasn't me. Right. And so that was, you know, we kind of have the sponsorship.
[00:16:00] Yeah. You know, things are tough. So what would, what can we do right. Instead of saying, this is what we traditionally do, it's not working, well, what could we do differently? And how can we touch our people? How can we let them see us differently?
[00:16:15] Rick Thomas: And I'm curious, is the Canadian economy. Are you experiencing kind of this pent up demand? That's creating interesting implications with supply chain and what not up there?
[00:16:28] Branko Culo: Well, there's definitely a supply chain [00:16:30] shortages. But, but you know, I would say for us here, the geographically speaking, we've been in a recession since 2005. Companies have learned to run leaner and meaner and more efficient.
[00:16:45] When before and prosperity, when Alberta was just known as this, you come to Alberta and, you know, it was kind of like, you know, the European settlers coming over to north America, you're going to strike it rich. Right? That mentality is kind of gone and, and now companies are spreading themselves larger than they have before. They're seeking clients outside of Alberta. They're going nationally, internationally for business. They're diversifying their product lines. And they're doing this all under better financial management. And so I think because they position [00:17:15] their businesses and create such strong basis through these difficult years that, you know, work, you can't stay in the recession forever.
[00:17:23] And I think, you know, we're at the end of that kind of stuff, six, seven year term, where it's going the other way. And I think businesses have been preparing for that for a long time and they're going to be ready to rock it out.
[00:17:33] Rick Thomas: Sure. So do you have a sense enough of where things are at that you and Jessica can begin deciding okay, this is what normal now looks like. What does that mean to us as a business, whether it's staying remote or whether it's hybrid or whether it's, you know, everybody's in the office now or other aspects, is that clear [00:18:00] enough to you at this point?
[00:18:01] Branko Culo: Yeah, it is. I think when, when we go through episodes like this and the business cycle, I think what you learn or what you do during it, shouldn't change is because the situation.
[00:18:11] So what we're going to continue with is we're going to instill a hybrid work model where it will be anybody who's been with us for longer than a year will have the opportunity to work two or three days from home, depending on you know, their position and the responsibilities, and they'll have the option if they want to stay in the office, a hundred percent of the time, that will be there, but we will have a hybrid remote work option. Virtual meetings with clients we will stay I think, depending on the situation, it will go to preference, but I think we've all realized that there's a huge time efficiency there where you can meet with more people, [00:18:45] develop more relationships and spend the last time out on the road with virtual meetings.
[00:18:49] So, in certain cases, I see that we'll stay for the most part. And then we're going to continue to build our team. So the focus hasn't taken away from that, even though we've hired five were more, you know, this is a conversation we're having with clients too, is no longer are we going to be a reactional and transactional when the need is there, we're going to be proactive and continuous with our recruitment.
[00:19:11] So we're starting to have those conversations with clients as well, where, what positions do you foresee needing it's more about forecasting their needs and identifying and educating them on the market as where, when you're busy or competitors are busy. So if we're head hunting someone from you, chances of them leaving when things are well [00:19:30] or not so good when there is a lag in business operations or a slow down that's where we can pull them out. And then we've been relating this feedback to them. And we're just going to start to push those conversations more where our relationship is gonna be more effective with you if we're in a proactive recruitment, that's continuous for you rather than reactionary and transactional.
[00:19:51] Rick Thomas: And how many have, you know, just general percentage of your clients are receptive to that type of conversation with switching what the focus of it is?
[00:20:04] Branko Culo: It definitely depends on who we're talking to. If we're talking to HR, you know, the, the blinders are kind of half on, you know, we find those conversations are better [00:20:15] had with management level roles or C suite.
[00:20:18] They, they kind of get it and see the value in that. And so for the most part, I'd say they are open to it and they're open to it because we're, we're backing it up with data. So, you know, there is a huge emphasis on things we implemented is let's sell with data, right? No longer do we want to just call and have an exploratory conversation without any background or information.
[00:20:38] We really want to make sure that we have kind of our cards in the row and, and the kind of the way we simplified that was them, us, fit, proof. So what do we need to share what we know about them? About their industry, tell them, share with them what we had done in their industry, who we've worked with and then show them the proof of of our, of our [00:21:00] placements.
[00:21:00] Rick Thomas: Yeah, that's excellent. I'm curious was this kind of the thought process even before COVID or did COVID really kind of bring this about, and it has accelerated?
[00:21:12] Branko Culo: COVID has accelerated a dramaticly. I would say the way we, we rely just on people liking us before, right. We would go to their office we would, you know, talk about things un business-related and, and just, you know, develop a relationship because they liked us, but we didn't really focus on the business aspects, the business needs getting into the nitty gritty, that being more consultants, right. For it, rather than just people, they like that they want to buy.
[00:21:39] So it's been an adjustment for sure breaking that mold. But you know, we're coming to meetings [00:21:45] prepared with data on their industry, what their competitors are doing who we've worked with within their industry, who we know in their company and really kind of highlighting our experience and sharing with them, you know, recent position stories, sharing who we filled in, what that process looked like to point them an idea of how long it can take or what the attractors are to getting people to leave an opportunity that they're happy with. And so that's been a real education for us, but then even in our followups as well.
[00:22:14] Rick Thomas: And what's it been like in, in reorienting the salespeople to kind of lead and think this way?
[00:22:21] Branko Culo: Well, Rick, if you know salespeople, I'm sure you do. They don't like change. They're good because they've done it their [00:22:30] way and they've had the autonomy to do it their way. So, initially it's always fighting that wall, right? Like, why are we doing this? You know, the way I've always done it worked with me before. And then, you know, just kind of had to have one of those Jim Collins quotes where, you know what got us here won't get us there.
[00:22:46] And, and this is the right opportunity to change that and come out of the gate. So we're revamped and with a little bit of spit and Polish on the business and our processes and our procedures and, and look different to clients.
[00:22:57] Rick Thomas: So, and I'm curious in like, not with follow-ups with clients that you already have a relationship with, let's say prospecting. , Are those also done virtually or are prospecting done in person?
[00:23:11] Branko Culo: Yeah, no, they're done virtually as well. And so, you know, [00:23:15] it's kinda like the smallest thing that you think of that like, wow, that actually works, right. Like before he be, we never tried. But you know, it was something, one of my colleagues, she specializes in an accounting and finance professionals.
[00:23:27] You know, she would ad chase, so what that means is she would, you know, do searches on LinkedIn and indeed to see which companies were hiring. She'd look at who, the talent that she had, that she could market to them and, and make that call. And normally, you know, you make that call. If you don't get on to leave a voicemail, you follow up with an email and you do the kind of the same repetitive process.
[00:23:48] Um, She just said, you know, I only tried something different. I did not send a calendar invite for this day and to talk about this position and, you know, maybe share a couple of highlights with the candidate that I have in mind. And she been [00:24:00] getting an extremely high acceptance ratio. And so those calendar invites without even speaking to the person, but she made the attempt to are turning into meetings and are turning into a job requisition.
[00:24:12] Rick Thomas: Fantastic. Very cool.
[00:24:15] Branko Culo: Yeah. So we're, we're conscious running with it now everybody is doing it. So, you know, the problem during times, like this is how do you get that meeting? You know, I hate to say it, it was you know, stalled a hundred percent, but to a large degree, it was, it was a way for us to get over that hurt.
[00:24:30] Rick Thomas: Talk a little bit on the data side. Cause you've mentioned it a few times and I take it, this, this has been a shift for the business. So, without divulging the state secrets, you know, was the data just out there was a matter of [00:24:45] of just accessing it or did, did it take a lot of work to really engineer that for, for your purposes?
[00:24:51] Branko Culo: The data was there and it was just simplified. So I give our corporate headquarters credit for creating the partnership with Emsi. But essentially no Rick the way we would do it before is, you know, we'd have these contacts on rates that have three, 400 companies. And, and, you know, if you don't make your calls, Regularly, then it builds up.
[00:25:09] It just keeps building up. So where you might go from a plan call list of 20 hours a day, you don't make that 20 carries over and then people just randomly call through the ones that they like, that they already have a relationship with, not the ones that have a need. And they went and didn't know what to call the boat because they went know beforehand what the need is.
[00:25:28] And so that call would be about trying to figure it [00:25:30] out. Then even the person on the other end would be like, I don't have time for this. And, and, and it's really sinful. And in this whole trade secrets, all we have to do is put the company name into Moz and it will show us what what their top posted positions.
[00:25:44] In order of, of populations or that's a, a higher need or a more requested need. It will show us how many times it's been posted for how long it's been posted. And then it will show us the breakdown of like the skills that people that they're looking for. So, you know, I show those two things. It's a, if I'm, you know, an accounting and finance, but you know, they're top meta skill trades and accounting and finances, and even on, on the list of positions that they've posted for the last year.
[00:26:12] Should I be calling on them or should my colleague in [00:26:15] skill trade be calling on them? We just made three placements last week for a similar role. So it gave us an you know, point to the arrow as to why we should be called. And, and the reason why we're making that call, I'm calling you because I've noticed that you seem to have a high requirement for skilled trades and realizing that that's a, demand requirement.
[00:26:34] I want to let you know, I worked with one of your competitors last week and fill this position and I checked in on Friday and that person's doing really well for them. Can you and I have a similar conversation? What a good way to start the call versus do you guys have any job postings? Do you have any openings?
[00:26:49] What do you foresee coming in the next 30, 60 days? Right, so it's, it's a value proposition, right from the get-go and it's such a simple thing. and then when we're recruiting for those positions, [00:27:00] We can see what education background is preferred. You know, what, where these people are coming from as far as industry and previous work.
[00:27:08] So from looking at our recruiting metrics and our identifiers, it gives us some useful insight and information too.
[00:27:15] Rick Thomas: I want to pivot a little bit and talk a little bit about the future. And, but before we go there, just kind of recapping and granted. This is still in process in terms of how businesses are adapting in this new reality.
[00:27:33] But are there any kind of key lessons that you and Jessica look back on? It's like, okay, we're not going to forget this for this reason or these reasons. What sticks out for you?
[00:27:44] Branko Culo: [00:27:45] Don't forget about people. At the basic ingredient to having a recipe for success is people. And so that is a client and making sure we're regularly reaching out to them, sharing important information, them that's relevant.
[00:27:58] We don't blast them with things that aren't relevant. Candidates and building the Canada relationship. So often in our industry and the, oh, is guilty of this. It's, you know, talking to a candidate at once and you know, he's, maybe he's not the right person. So he never talked to him again. It's building those relations, continuous relationships with them because the ad this opportunity might not be a good fit for them, but the next one might be.
[00:28:20] So, you know, we've implemented regular candidate reach outs through our email marketing system and for clients as well. But most importantly, internally we've done [00:28:30] made a note to really connecting with our internal people to see how they're doing. Business is fine, how are you feeling? How are you coping with the change?
[00:28:39] And we tend to do that on scale of one to 10. How are you feeling personally and professionally? But you know, it's easy when things are busy to forget about the relationship development. So it just reminded us how important relationships are with all the stakeholders in the business.
[00:28:55] Rick Thomas: So let's, kind of shift and talk about the future and one of the things I've always appreciated about you Bronco and getting to know you over this last year is, you're a very expansive thinker. And so as you look at how things are evolving and whether it's full more [00:29:15] specifically your, your industry, or just in overall the economy of what, what you're dealing with up there in Edmonton, what are some of the big drivers you see happening right now that most businesses need to be thinking about how to deal with this.
[00:29:31] Branko Culo: Number one is talent shortage and that's not related to we can't find people that's related to the talent is not within the local constituency. It just, it's not there, or there's not enough of it there to support the growth in that India. And so, you know, for us here, why, why that's an issue because when oil and gas was really booming, you had all these people who left their previous industries to go into oil and gas and oil and gas, [00:30:00] boomed, for many, many years, oil and gas you know, collab, which is a class, but it kind of went off the radar for a bed is starting to rebound now.
[00:30:08] But so yeah, there's this place workforce that the other industries don't want. They make more money in oil and gas and they're considered a flight risk. So now you have this large portion of demographic that isn't desirable to the other industry and the training that they've received in oil and gas isn't applicable to, to the other industry.
[00:30:30] So there's that displacement that was created. And then I'd never want to fall to her. You know, our educational systems, because I think we have some really strong, highly regarded universities and colleges here. But I also think that you know, there hasn't been [00:30:45] enough talk between the educational system and business. Business is becoming very innovative and moving at a much rapid change things that are educational systems.
[00:30:56] So I think the programs aren't keeping him paced enough to keep up with the changes in business locally. And you know, that's where that whole conversation about changing the conversation from a a continuous recruitment strategy to attract the right candidate versus being reactionary that kind of comes into play in that same conversation.
[00:31:17] Rick Thomas: How are businesses, I mean, because those kinds of things take a long time to respond. For a university to kind of reprogramming their curriculum. I mean, [00:31:30] that could take a generation.
[00:31:34] So, so what happens in the meantime? I mean, if you were solving that problem, what would you do.
[00:31:41] Branko Culo: It's eliminating the lateral move expectancy, right? So instead of contacting the candidate who fits that job description to a T right now, but that's what they're currently doing.
[00:31:51] It's, let's take the candidate who that this position would be their next career step. It would be a vertical step. And realizing that you need to digest a little bit more training and a little bit more time with that person, but they're going to be motivated to do it because it's a vertical girl, step four.
[00:32:10] Right. We need to get away from this lateral move thinking where as hiring [00:32:15] managers, unless they fit exactly what we need today, we're not going to move forward and that's been a case.
[00:32:21] Rick Thomas: Is that conversation getting any traction with those large hiring companies or clients where they're recognizing they may have to invest in that internal training more?
[00:32:34] Branko Culo: It is, and it isn't. And the reason why is they hear it and they understand the logic of it. But the problem is, is that running leaner. Right. So no back in 2013, 2014 at the peak of our economy here in Alberta, specifically, companies, there was a talent shortage. But they were, they were running so fast that they had people that they can train.
[00:32:54] So they were just hiring the character and training and skill. Well, now they don't have trainers to train. [00:33:00] Right. They need people who can hit the ground running because the operational model has become one of operating lean and efficiently. And having people can come in and are like Lego pieces can hit the ground running and have an impact right away.
[00:33:13] And so that final approval to invest is only there if they, if they can find that person who can do that.
[00:33:20] Rick Thomas: Do you see much cross border migration at all? I mean obviously with the border being shut down, it's that not withstanding because there's still virtual. I don't know how much of this is solved by virtual placement.
[00:33:34] But is there much recruitment south of south of the border?
[00:33:40] Branko Culo: Traditionally? No. Just because around challenges around the working visas [00:33:45] you think with Canada their relationship between Canada and us, we think it'd be a lot easier, but it's not. And then of course also there's always compensation.
[00:33:52] So a lot of the time candidates don't realize until the end that, you know, they're getting paid 30% less.
[00:33:59] Rick Thomas: There is that too,
[00:34:02] Branko Culo: you know, where virtual has kind of changed that conversation and it's still early. And so, I can't with confidence say that this is going to be something that's going to be a conversation we're gonna have more and more.
[00:34:13] But we're starting to have exploratory conversation around do you need this person to be an end? Do they physically does their job requirement? Does that deserve most physically require them to be here? If not, what does it matter where they are? So [00:34:30] it's changing. It's elevating that remote work conversation to a work from anywhere conversation and, you know, companies, I think this will be a slow trickling up there, but I think my personal opinion is we will get there.
[00:34:44] Where you will have virtual CEOs. He will have virtual presidents because the needs for the talent and the expertise will be so great to remain competitive that you won't limit yourself to demographics in your local communities.
[00:35:00] Rick Thomas: And I'm curious, you know, if you look at your particular vertical in your business, You know, placing executive level positions, do you see that moving [00:35:15] beyond the Edmonton area, just especially because of this virtual nature and being able to place virtually?
[00:35:21] Branko Culo: I do like a lot of our clients have national operations or they're in multiple big Canadian cities. So I'm having one right now where they're looking for a vice-president of operations.
[00:35:36] And, and so it's definitely will open up our geographical reach again, because it's, you know, it's almost like what the European union did when they created the EU and our borders came down and allowed that freedom of movement for both travel and for work. I see a similar thing kind of in Canada with, since the virtual option.
[00:35:56] And so, you know, come on tendency to have established [00:36:00] parameters around how that's going to work, You know, proper transitions internally, but yeah, I definitely think our we're going to be more and more expansive and opportunities will come to us as a result.
[00:36:11] Rick Thomas: Sure. Maybe as a place to, to kind of end then Bronco what is the thing that's got you most looking forward to the next 10 years in the business?
[00:36:24] Branko Culo: I think it's the opportunity to change the model our business operates completely. And I think we're at that pivot point, Rick, I really do. And so I look at blockbuster and Netflix, I look at taxis and Uber's, I look at restaurants and skip the dishes and I look at brick and mortar versus online commerce.
[00:36:44] [00:36:45] Those are all things that have proceeded us and are in motion and we're sticking and it's not changing any time soon. It's going the other way. So to me, it's, what's the evolution of our business going to look like in that way, shape, or form and it's not reinventing the wheel, but it's, how do you deliver the service at the consultancy in a different way?
[00:37:06] And it's, you know, really apple did it really well. They never reinvented the wheel. They just took an existing wheel and changed it to accommodate a different demographic. Where there was a gap or there was a need, or there was an enlightenment to, Hey, here's something that we can do better that you will like.
[00:37:23] Rick Thomas: Great example and in a great place to leave it. Bronco, this has been a lot of fun. And as always, I appreciate your [00:37:30] thinking and you're doing good stuff up there. And when the borders eventually open up, it's a place I've never been, but always wanted to visit. So I'm looking forward to that at some point and tipping a beer with you up there.
[00:37:43] Branko Culo: Well, thanks so much, Rick. It's been fun. I always enjoy our conversations as well.
